Top First Basemen
Lou Gehrig
Albert Pujols
Jimmie Foxx
Johnny Mize
Hank Greenberg
Jeff Bagwell
Frank Thomas
Mark McGwire
Eddie Murray
Rafael Palmerio
Willie McCovey
Harmon Killebrew
Jim Thome
Keith Hernandez
Note - I find it difficult to compare players across eras. For the purpose of these debates, we can compare men based on positions. I understand that Babe Ruth may not be a very good ball player today, but for the nature of this argument, we compare their abilities to those that they played against and the value that they performed at that time. We can only compare what we do know. Not that speculation if Babe Ruth or Ted Williams would be any good today or not. If you would like to have your own debate, or rank players differently, then be my guest.
1. Lou Gehrig - Lou Gehrig is the top first basemen ever. Let’s be clear. Stan Musial is the only other player that compares, but I am placing him as a leftfielder for this discussion. 4 Seasons with a WAR over 10, one at 12. 3 more seasons over 9. He had one of the greatest peaks ever. From 1926-1937, Gehrig posted a WAR above 7 each year. FOR 12 YEARS he was that good! That is one of the greatest peaks we have ever seen in baseball, and his hitting was amazing, his defense was positive. Never posted an obp below .420, a slugging below .583 (.549 in 26 though) and was just a phenomenal beast throughout his iron man career. If only had not gotten sick...he went out on top, and it isn’t just an over rated hype that he went out on top as he was aging, he was just that good.
2. Albert Pujols - Okay, so you guys know I am a Cardinals fan...and I imagine I will get some flack for placing Albert this high at the age of 30 with only 10 big league seasons. Fair. I will accept that flack, but I will say why I placed him this highly. Because his peak is second only to that of Gehrig and because the potential is still untapped for him. I am mainly basing this decision because he tops my number 3, Foxx. His peak is better, and unless he completely falls on his face in the next two years, he will easily surpass Foxx. Foxx's final productive season was at age 33, if Pujols plays at half the value he has had throughout his career over the next three seasons he will easily surpass Foxx. I count on him being able to do that. I don’t like the idea of placing guys highly because of their ‘potential’ but in Pujols case, he has already surpassed the 80 WAR mark, and if his career ended today, he would likely be no worse than the 4th greatest first basemen ever, and that is from just one decade. I have a harder time justifying lowering his placement on this list than I do raising his placement to where I have him. This is a discussion, it is an interesting topic to discuss with Pujols anywhere on this list. I will accept being called a homer.
3. Jimmie Foxx - Granted, he did play during an offensive era, but he was one of the first true power hitters not named Ruth to play the game. He took raw advantage and was a part of some very successful teams. He had a very pretty peak and baseball benefited greatly from his success as a power hitter. A peak from 1929-39 with three very productive seasons added on, easily makes him good enough for the hall of fame. I prefer Pujols peak over Foxx’s, however, there is room for debate for that.
4. Johnny Mize - Too bad he missed time to war. He is easily hall of fame good, but he wasn’t as solid when he came back from war, although any drop wasn't very large. He still posted three more peak seasons, but we missed some of his best seasons...and that is a shame. Career WAR over 70, hall of fame great, with some very solid seasons before 1942, and even some more after 1945. Good enough for 4th all time....He will be passed before too long though. If we could have had more time and less war time.
5. Hank Greenberg - He too had his peak shortened by the war, however, his peak was not as impressive as Johnny Mize, partially because he didn't play full seasons during his peak. He did post a year or two of success after the war, but it’s hard to say he was better than Mize overall.
6. Jeff Bagwell - Great career, it was a short career ages 23-37, and he only had about three or four seasons of phonemal success combined with a lot of years of solid success. He was impressive, his career was short, and he lacked that super impressive peak that some of his fellow first basemen had. I feel a 6th spot is well deserved.
7. Frank Thomas - Great peak, probably stuck around too long. The Big Hurt was great! 75 career WAR, hope we see him in the hall.
8. Mark McGwire - Amazing peak, not a very good sustained career due in part to injuries...and well a variety of other things. If you translate his 162 game average over an additional 3-4 seasons and you have quite possibly the greatest first basemen ever. He missed a lot of time though. He was the mammoth home run hitter, and you would go to ball games just to watch him in batting practice. There is a blanket of speculation of cheating and roids and what-not around him. I don’t care about that, there are other players on this list with that as well. I look at what he did on the field and what we do know. McGwire had some of the greatest seasons we have ever seen offensively. His defense was less than desirable.
9. Eddie Murray - On a personal level, I love Murray’s career. Played a really long time, reached the romantic stats by playing a long time. Switch hitter la-de-da-da...I like him. But why is he the 9th greatest first basemen to ever play the game? 66.7 career WAR. Had he retired in 1993, he wouldn’t have lost anything IMO. He had a very good and long sustained career. No really amazing peak, late 20’s he was better than he was in his 30’s. He and Palmerio were difficult to split. I gave the edge to Murray.
10. Rafael Palmerio - Not much different from Murray IMO. Great career, couldn’t consistently replicate his peak success. But he was great and he had amazing seasons. He just never had that great consistent peak. But he did have those mixed seasons of great and then good and then great again.
11. Willie McCovey - 1969....career year! 1968 and 1970 were great as well! But that was about it for his peak. 63-67 he was building up to those years...and he was as good as any years Palmerio, Murray etc put up. McCovey had a very solid peak, but it started at age 25 and it ended at age 32 and he didn’t do much other than those years. His career started early and he played a very long time. I feel his peak was good, his career lasted a long time, he acquired a lot of WAR because of the length of his career, that he stayed relatively healthy. Nice career. To consider the placement of Palmerio and Murray vs McCovey, I suppose it's quality vs quantity in years.
12. Harmon Killebrew - He played more than just first, so it’s hard to place where he should go. I give him first base because he played more there than at third. But he was a great corner infielder, with a lethal bat. He had a solid peak, deserves to be in the top 15, so long as you consider him a first basemen.
13. Jim Thome - Great bat, played some third base and of course DH. Great career....one amazing season in 2002, with quite a few good seasons. He could probably be placed higher.
14. Keith Hernandez - Amazing glove, doesn’t have the bat you think of at first base, his bat just wasn’t typical at first. Still, a career 128 OPS+ still very good. Makes the list when you add his defense.
So many guys that need to be mentioned, so I will simply say the names of those that miss my list, but easily could be added. Todd Helton, Will Clark, John Olerud, Geroge Sisler, Cap Anson, Rod Carew, Bill Terry, Roger Conner, Pete Rose, Fred McGriff, Tony Perez, Don Mattingly, Jason Giambi, Orlando Cepeda, Frank Chance, Boog Powell, Norm Cash, Gil Hodges.....
Some of these guys don’t qualify as first basemen, Pete Rose for example didn’t play first enough probably, same with Carew. They all deserve some consideration, as well others. But I feel strongly that my top 10 are great, and the top 14 are solid choices
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Originally Posted by HoustonGM
